We’ve all heard of MGTOW, that movement typified largely by socially awkward men with little game, who having repeatedly failed to secure the attentions of a woman of even average quality, have in a childish fit of petulance exclaimed “Well I never wanted them anyway!”, convincing no-one except themselves in the process.

Ironically however, there is wisdom is their approach. Every man should in fact strive to be a “man going his own way”. Your life mission should be your primary focus, women a welcome addition but not a necessity.

By concentrating entirely on your aims and goals and gaining validation therein, you stop needing women to feel good about yourself, and start being self-affirmed. And when you stop needing women, that’s when you can get as many as you want.

There’s a caveat however, and this is where the MGTOW go wrong in the main part – they carry with them a heart full of bitterness and resentment towards women, for all the times their “best friend” game was rejected, for all the times they were passed over in favour of the jerk, even though “they know they’re better than him”.

“Going your own way” is only attractive to women when you’ve already got a handle on game, social dynamics and female socio-sexual psychology, and you’ve got some good reference experiences behind you of getting with some decent quality girls.

Quitting a game because you are losing is the worst kind of sportsmanship. Retiring near the top of your game to pursue more rewarding options is an entirely different kettle of fish.


29 thoughts on “MGTOW

  1. Pingback: MGTOW |

  2. The underlying assumptions of your article are (1) that all men should strive to have a personal relationship with a women and (2) that being able to make yourself attractive to women is a fundamental attribute of a man (or should I say “real man,” since that seems to be what you are trying to define in your article).

    I obviously disagree. Saying a man must meet some artificial definition of manhood (one that may require him to contort his personality into something he dislikes) before he’s allowed to GHOW is no different than the blue-pill idea that men need to conform to society’s definition of a man.

    • Do you identify as MGTOW? If so, consider that you are perceiving the post as an attack on your identity in which you’ve invested your ego. Or else you are perhaps just trying to theoretically debate. Either way, there’s not much point me trying to respond to your points, since I’ve already stated the salient arguments in the body of the post.

      Suffice to say – emotional intimacy and companionship is a fundamental human need. Anyone who states otherwise is frankly living in denial of evolution. Until you’ve been in a position to attract and maintain relationships with high quality women, to swear off them is just sour grapes.

      Should you “strive” to have relationships with women? Not at all. Should you desire it? Unless your testicles have been cut off, yes.

    • Dude is an total blue piller feigning alpha. They are a dime a dozen and real men just need to scoff at their mangina ideas. These douches are the most dangerous of them all. They turn their backs on their own kind so they can get into a womans pants easier. Which is fucked up because it really jusr drives woman away back to our arms.

      If you want attention from women, put MGTOW in your dating profile. The ugly, overweight 35+ year olds will pof stalk you like no other.

  3. Once again MGTOW is conflated with PUA strategies. Men who are going their own way for the right reasons don’t care whether their actions are attractive or not.
    Most also don’t whine about “I never wanted them anyway” — that’s the loud pissed off minority who just found TRP pages this week.
    Frivorce survivors, etc, all have very specific and logical reasons for not only anger but also (later) the philosophical reach of MGTOW.
    The fundamental problem that most people have regarding MGTOW is like all other misunderstandings — lack of perspective. There is exactly ONE reason why a guy would choose to cut women out of his life in such a conscious manner — there ain’t an option otherwise. People who can get laid more or less regularly will never understand.
    Incels/gammas/whatever have only this one branch to cling to so that they can get their act together and MAYBE attract some 4 or 5 to get laid once in awhile. And you are sawing off that branch.
    Painting MGTOWs with the Pathetic brush is exactly what the cunty feministers do. Is that the side you want to take?

    • Entirely disagree. No man is so beyond hope that he can’t take massive strides to improve himself to even a reasonable level, unless he’s badly physically disabled or mentally retarded, in which case they are exceptional cases.

      The philosophical reach of MGTOW as you put it is nothing more than elaborate ego justification for living in a comfort zone.

      • And all it takes for them to become true red pillers is to go fuck a hooker once in a while.

  4. I think you are mistaken. A few years ago I used to dip into the MGTOW forums and did not stay long. As you imply the whiff of the desperate loser was never far away. I sensed there were some there who had options when it came to women and had taken the conscious decision to GTOW. However they seemed to be overwhelmed by individuals who (I suspect) were low value and were using the MGTOW label as a fig leaf to cover their own inadequacies (or more importantly, their unwillingness to self-improve – not to attract women, but just for their own self esteem).

    But more recently I sense this changing. I see more and more articulate, reasoned and thoughtful discussions around male / female dynamics from men who clearly have had experience with women as partners, wives, FWBs, girlfriends, colleagues and as relatives. These guys do not appear to be the SMP losers that the MGTOW crowd is often made out to be. Some seem simply very rational and if you have a red-pill understanding and extensive experience with women it is hard to challenge their general conclusion (so it seems to me) of ‘women aren’t worth it’.

    There are still some who come across as losers of course, but my interest lies in the direction of travel amongst MGTOW rather than where it sits at any given point in time. MGTOW are one of the canaries in the coalmine with regard to the course of the SMP and male / female relations will take in the near future.

    I also think we view the male ‘withdrawal’ dynamic through a different lens. I suspect you consider it akin to sulking – a pre-meditated strategy designed to paint yourself as a victim and lay a guilt trip on the women. Of course, this won’t work because it’s weak. This is not what I am talking about when I see men dis-engaging from modern women.

    The dynamic I am interested in here is the common male response to a women who has lost control and is not responding to masculine efforts to reign her in. When a woman pushes and pushes and pushes, usually over an extended time, until eventually a switch will flick in her man’s head. He will suddenly cease caring about her. All their years together, all their shared experience will count for nothing. This is not pre-meditated nor is it a tactic. It is automatic and it is instinctive – and all the more powerful because of it.

    This is intriguing because it seems that this instinct not only drives much of the MGTOW phenomenon but, more importantly, it must be in men for a reason. This is the ultimate tool given to men to restore balance in relations between men and women. And it’s deployment is not triggered by a man’s will but by a woman’s behavior.

    It is easy to read this process as weakness, withdrawal, running away. Because what is being deployed? Quite simply, indifference. IMO MGTOWs are not running away….they are walking away.

    My sense is that it is being deployed by more and more men with increasing frequency and by men higher up the ‘value chain’. MGTOW is a good proxy by which to measure this trend.

    My point is that significant numbers of such men are (for the first time in modern history) doing the cost / benefit analysis and concluding it not to be worth the effort.

    My point is we should not be shaming them, we should be getting out of their way.

    • It’s not unique to this time. The fall of Rome and the fall of Sparta have been heavily linked to feminist beliefs. Same with one of the middle eastern civilizations which the name eludes me at the moment. One has to think the old biblical stories of Sodom and Gamora might be a storie of feministic ideologies bringing down that civilization as well. The stories are the same. Women are started to be treated like men, which in turns makes them promiscuous, which in turn leads to moral breakdown of society. This leads to the eventual death of the family unit which leads to lowered birth rates. Any of this sound familiar to you guys? This weakens said civilization which in turn leads to invasion.

      Im not saying we will be invaded in our lifetime, but if this apple gets soiled enough, it will still retain enough juices to make another man want it.

  5. For my both PUA and MGTOW are wrong directions.

    Most PUAs (but not all) confuse SMV with value of man as person.
    High value men have high SMV, but high SMV does not implicate High value man.

    Value of man is decided by other men. Other men make him their leader – alpha. There is no other definition of alpha. PUAs just don’t get it. Women have nothing to do with men being alpha or not. Women just want to be fucked by alpha. Nothing more.

    There are some men that are confused by women as being highly valuable, but are not. Those men have high SMV.

    That is mistake that PUA movement make.

    Most MGTOW men hate women for whatever reason. I would guess that, most of them are low SMV men. They can’t get successful with women, so they get angry and act as child or woman would.

    For that reason most of them will never improve their value.
    Cos you have to accept your own fault to improve upon it.

    I’m writing this as some kind of game expert or whatever. In fact I am pretty bad at game. I just don’t think that either way is good way. Making women reason of life or hating them seems like 2 sides of one coin at orbits around women.

    Can’t men just find reason to live that doesn’t concern women?
    Some mission to fulfill? Or whatever that might be.

    For guys that are hate women and think they are MGTOW i have one advice:

    I was where you are now. Hate is not a solution. You must let go of it.

    Learning game is great. It sure changed my life for better in past year. I was fat, lazy fucker. Going out at night, making approaches feels great.

    At it all that came without being some crazy PUA or ever being successful at game. I’m pretty bad at it, but still i had much fun just giving it a try.

    • Where do you get that MGTOW hate women? Men in general hhave an extremely hard time to actually hate women. You don’t see men beating women en mass. I don’t see American men taking their wives to the shed. So if we MGTOWS hate women, how do we feel about other men? Fact is men on men crime are about 1000% more common than men on women crimes. (Thanks Karen Straughen for making that argument)

      No MGTOW doesn’t hate women, thats fem-logic. We are extremely dissatisfied and disappointed by women is a more accurate description.

  6. Everyone tells me about all these MGTOWs with bitterness and resentment, but I don’t see them. I watch bar bar’s videos, Stardusk’s videos, RBK’s videos, Spetznas’s videos, and I see no bitterness or resentment towards women.

    I come across posts like this, and it looks like you’re projecting motivations on MGTOW and how they arrived at them.

    I will tell you this, it’s difficult for me to stay out of relationships as much as I try to avoid them. I don’t have women throwing themselves at me, but I have several of them that are interested in me. Many of which I work with. I spend a lot of time trying to let them down gently, with kid gloves, because I know a harsh rejection would likely cause some kind of retaliation.

    When you have some evidence for your positions, come back. Until then, you should consider the virtues of basing your worth (or any man’s worth) off of the amount of female attention they receive.

    • “Until then, you should consider the virtues of basing your worth (or any man’s worth) off of the amount of female attention they receive.”

      Almost every single comment I’ve had so far on this has been some kind of indignation from someone’s ego I’ve hurt, who doesn’t like their identity being challenged. At what point in my post did I say that you should base your worth off what women think of you? If there’s any projection here, it sounds more like it’s coming from you.

      Can you honestly tell me these women who are interested in you are of genuinely high quality? Are you beating away feminine, sweet, young hot women with a stick every time you venture out?

      I fully sympathise with a dearth of quality women in many places in the West. Does that mean I’m going to swear off women? No, absolutely not. It also doesn’t mean there are zero women of quality out there – you’ve just got to look that bit harder, and have maximised your own value.

      I was reading the interview with Roosh over on AVFM earlier, where he mentions that the demographic that the Manosphere reaches has changed somewhat of late, and I must concur.

      • Well the fact your comparing worth of the women who show interest in someone shows how gynocentric your thinking is. By putting value on women, you allow them to put value on you. Which means you actually care about what these women think about you. My version of MGTOW won’t put values on women except for what i want to see. If i see an attractive woman ill judge her by that. But i wont delve in to find out if she is of “higher quality.” Why should i? Im not interested in anything but sex from her. Which i won’t get from her anyways, so even my shallow judgement from her wont last but a passing moment.

      • In the inaugural post, MGTOW the New Path The manner in which someone such as yourself reaches their conclusions that inaccurately paint Mgtows as resentful and bitter is explained.

        Here’s a metaphor of your reasoning concerning MGTOWS. Slaves in the pre-civil war south often make the mistake of becoming bitter and resentful of their masters and it is their egos that motivate them wrongly to not accept the conditions, environment and rigid social hierarchy of which their race places them at the absolute bottom of an artificially constructed caste system. By rejecting the standards and values that offer them nothing in return except the privilege of being owned by another person who is part of a larger society that defines for them all aspects of their life, worth and value, any position external to the constructed hierarchy can only be a result of wrong thinking, ego, bitterness and irrational hatred for the slave owning class. That the slave who decides to walk off the plantation and away from a master cannot possess any other reason because it is only the definitions and values of the slave owning class that is considered valid and significant. Those who are designated the slave caste cannot have a reason for departing that assumes an ability to redefine the terms of his worth and value unattached to deference to the values and definition of the master caste, therefore in order to avoid facing the moral and ethical problems of the institution of slavery, it is to the benefit of the master caste to project upon the departed slave a character of ego, selfishness, immaturity, and bitterness as though those reactions are not legitimate in response to an overall environment that does not recognize the slaves innate humanity.

  7. It’s not that MGTOW don’t like their identities challenged, it’s that they don’t like being told what their identities are.

    It comes down to the question “what is their troth”. And that’s not a typo.

    Troth is their essence, what makes them, them.

    You have not challenged their identities, as you don’t really know who they are. If you did, then your questions would have more effect. (maybe they are challenging your identity)?

    If you don’t like the answers, just change your questions.

    • Unfortunately, reproduction is the ultimate goal. That’s why salmons die quickly after reproduction, they literally fall apart, or why the probability of tumour increases significantly with age. Or, why certain diseases like Huntington give you reproductive advantage but you die sooner as a tradeoff. You can be vegan and make it work but it’s suboptimal and you’ll probably need supplements. You can go your own way and make it work but…

    • As a society and culture, we deal with the simplistic and surface because we are lazy and don’t want to think.

      I watched the movie Ender’s game with my son, and I loved the quote, “it’s only when you truly understand your enemy, is when you truly love them”.

      I think saying “they don’t want to make their lives better” is just an excuse not to find out about them.

      In society, we are taught to be lazy. The author asked why they felt defensive, and the really brave part is to listen to them.

      The fact that many cannot understand them proves they are living authentically, that being outside of a shallow culture.

      They really are the true cultural rebels, and every generation insults their path finders.

      The next generation will call them heroes.

    • Who said we aren’t making our lives better? If your life revolves around what women thunk then you’re right. But MGTOW doesn’t care and won’t judge their life based on what girls they attract. They don’t share your values and to look down on them because of it makes you look oppressive.

  8. This was a great little piece–I think it expresses very well why so many people who self-identify as MGTOW are actually nothing of the sort. If you find yourself constantly bemoaning how women have ruined your life, or how women have ruined the workplace, or how they don’t love you but love jerks instead, or how they’ve tilted the legal landscape against you, or how they just all suck–then you are NOT going your own way. You are BEGGING for female attention. You are saying, “Hey look at me! Look what you could have had! Too bad you’re all such bitches!”

    Anyone–man or woman–who is truly going his/her own way has no need of such recitals. They simply live their lives. As it happens, I do consider myself MGTOW, but not because I hate women or think they’ve ruined society–I just find the idea of committing to another person (or having children with that person) for the rest of my life to be kind of preposterous in this day and age. So I don’t bother trying to achieve any such commitment. Instead, I’m busy with my life–work, passions, travel, recreation, friends, sex, etc. I try to work as little as possible and enjoy my life as much as possible (and really, that’s the best perq of not having anyone depending on you–you have SO much more time and leisure to do whatever it is you want).

    If you are going your own way because the joys of it seem obviously to outweigh the costs, then great. You are MGTOW. But if you’re going your own way because you think women just suck, or because they don’t love you enough, etc etc etc, then you are just a douche, with quite a long way to go. Definitely not MGTOW.

    • Your just as closed minded about MGTOW as the guys you’re chastising. Some men do get driven to the MGTOW lifestyle. Im such guy. Sure it makes them bitter but to discredit their feelings and POV because they’ve shown some anger makes you very close minded.

      If your approach is to disappear and not be heard from then i commend you. But thats not how others feel. Just because they have a point to make, doesn’t mean they haven’t shunned the idea of living on their own terms.

      I personally didn’t choose this lifestyle at first, it chose me. After being on many failed dates, and an absorbent amount of short term relationship, i started to look around to see what was wrong with me. Turns out, there is nothing wrong with me. I’m a throwback to another time that women today don’t know how to appreciate. There was a time in this countries history that my values would have been honored and cherished by women. But the world changed. I dont blame or hate women, i do blame and despise those who are responsible though. Ive since learn to accept and embrace this fact. Women just don’t share the same values as me. But because i was at first forced ibto this lifestyle because a lifetime of rejection from women, how does that make me or anyone like me less MGTOW? The end results are the same. I’m single and have no prospects of marriage. Eventually it morphed into me not wanting marriage myself, but how am i not going my own way?

      • ‘Women just don’t share the same values as me.’

        That’s the main reason behind my increasing indifference. Who cares about all this ‘game’, sexual market value stuff if you’re not even interested in sex?

  9. Lol other than the deep misandric tones this author uses he has a point. Firget the first two paragraghs as all they are inteded to do is make a MGTOW man eyes roll from this uncle Tims pathetic attemot to shame us, but he has a point that all men should go MGTOW and make themselves less needy for women. We’ve been socially engineered to tell us that man has to have a family to be successful. Well now femitards gabe us the chance to break that yolk. We don’t need a family either. Women have been telling us to get lost for decades. Its really about time we listened en mass and do ehat they ask. Hey they have their social circle of close friends that can support them. They also can easily get most men to drop their pants for them as long as they provide what we want. We can get the milk because the cows are giving it away at holesale market value. Its a win for allm

    Except for the next generation. Good luck explaining that one to your kids femtards.

  10. There is no monolithic MGTOW. And how men get there is by many different paths. Some have been married and lost their wealth and kids. Others have seen all the negative things that happened when their parents divorced. Some have been falsely accused of rape, or know someone who has, or have read about it. Sure, some may be “losers” — based upon whatever that term refers to by whomever is using it (weak, can’t get dates, can’t get sex, don’t earn much, are ugly, are fat, etc.) — and have given up. But ultimately, they all have come to conclusion either that the best way to achieve happiness in their lives is to avoid relationships with women; or that the risks involved with such a relationship are just too high for the benefits involved (yes, there are some good women out there, but you can’t easily identify them, and even then, after 5-10 years of marriage and a couple kids, they might change their minds, and then you’re screwed).

    Many MGTOW make a rational cost-benefit analysis. Marriage? Women initiate 70-80% of divorces — too big a risk to spend years of your life and huge amounts of wealth on the whims of a woman who decides she’s just no longer happy in her marriage. Hot sex with the half-drunk girl at the bar? The amount of false rape claims is going up — being a PUA loses its charm when you’ve been thrown in jail for rape, and can look at spending the next year of your life, and tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting that charge (all brought because the girl decided, sometimes months or even years later, that she didn’t really consent to having sex). Hook-ups on campus? MGTOW men who are in college look at how the system is set up — colleges believe the accuser, assume you’re guilty, give you no due process, and can expel you in a matter of days or weeks — and decide that a ruined college career, and the professional career that now likely won’t occur, isn’t worth the fun from a couple hours of hook-up sex.

    By the way, I’m mid-50’s, not a MGTOW, happily married for almost 35 years. But I’ve looked at enough about MGTOW, and the herbivores in Japan, and the declining birth rates in most every developed country, and realize that many men (and women) are going their own ways.

    • Much of what gets missed when contemplating aspects of MGTOW philosophy is the important part informing that in many cases MGTOW involves a man discovering that he doesn’t need the validation of western women to shape his sense of value and self-worth. Currently we live in a gynocracy that socializes most men to define male virtue on levels of self sacrifice, and acceptance of disposibility as well as accepting existing as a resource of exploitation. In my opinion this paradigm is mainly the source for most of a man’s conflicting emotions, anxieties and pathologies that incrementally takes a deep toll on him psychologically. And this contributes to occasions of increasing self-destructive behavior as a result of attempting to exist with two or more competing contradictory value systems defining relational standards with regard to the ever shifting arbitrary and hypocritical societal models that impose upon men an expectation and obligation to live in mindless deference to western women who themselves are under no such equitable obligation to reciprocate in kind.

      MGTOW addresses not only the causal factors leading to male suffering, which can result in the very bitterness and resentment the feminists love to say when speaking against the validity of MGTOW but also provides comprehensive solutions to strip away the very underpinnings that contribute to past feelings of bitterness and resentment.
      When an awakened man realizes that his life has value and worth external to what is defined by feminists and western women, he can then create his own standards defining his own sense of self within reason. When that happens he can self-manufacture, self esteem. And with self esteem comes initiative and initiative leads to prioritizing things, ideas and economic considerations that helps elevate him. Under the former paradigm of relationships with western women, most everything is based on diminishing returns and only by accepting increased self-deception, romanticist myths and subjective evaluations devoid of logic and objective assessment can he continuer to falsely believe a relationship in which he gains less and then nothing and is finally discarded will he continue to defend the present gynocentric paradigm.

      One reason why some of these guys are called losers has a article of truth, but not for the reasons usually accepted. To be a western man in a general relationship with a western woman is essentially a zero sum game. No matter what he does, it always involves (more often than not) a steady decline measured in continual losses. Therefore if he is a loser, that is because the format of many relationships with western women is based on a hierarchy of HIS SACRIFICE and therefor he loses. Thus he becomes a loser. Yet to assign the label loser and pathetic to MGTOW is misplaced.

      Becoming a MGTOW is the first step to cutting off loss. From the moment he “goes his own way,” only GAIN occurs, not losses. And he cannot be pathetic because unlike feminists, he realizes that he must determine for himself the path to his liberation and release. In other words,unlike feminists, he actually takes responsibility for his life.

      The MGTOW typically views pursuit of his happiness within reason as the highest moral standard to express his system of ethics. And without the negative psychological underpinnings that shape general relationships with most western women, he is least likely to sink deeper into the kinds of psychosis and pathology that can often lead to self-destructive behavior.

      For feminists and most western women who depend on men’s deference and sacrificial socialization, MGTOW represents a dep problem. Many institutions from which western women receive various forms of subsidy literally depend upon men entering situations that legally bind him to an existence little better than indentured servitude. No marriage,no divorce, no divorce,no divorce lawyer, no divorce lawyer no divorce or family court, no family court, no alimony, no children, no child support. No dating, no rejection,no rejection, no reason to be bitter, see where it goes?

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